| Notes |
- [[Category:Concord%2C_sailed_July_1683]]
[[Category: Immigrants to Pennsylvania from Germany]]
[[Category:Germantown%2C_Pennsylvania]]
== Biography ==Lijntijen was born about 1650. She married ''Tonis Kuners of Gladbach'' in 1677. She emigrated to Province of Pennsylvania as the spouse of Thones Kunders in 1683 aboard the Concord and was one of the 13 founding families of Germantown.
The Descendants of Paulus and Gertrude Kusters edited by Jean M. White says of her parents:
..."Thiess Doors baptized 12 September 1614 in the Catholic Church in Kaldenkirchen, was the son of Peter Dohrs/Doormans and Lysgen (Elizabeth) Grietes. Thiess' name appears in an article about the persecution and suffering of the Mennonites in the Jurich-Berg Historical Journal under the surname Dahrs, Dahrmans, Peters and Peterschen which indicates that his father's name was Peter."...
"Neesgen (Agnes)...was also born in Kaldenkirchen around 1616/1618. Nothing is known about her parents or her childhood. After her marriage to Theis Doors which probably occurred around 1635-40, they became parents of eleven children."<ref>The Descendants of Paulus and Gertrude Kusters of Kaldenkirchen, Germany and Germantown, Pennsylvania Jean M. White, editor published by The Caster Association of America, 1991 p. 48</ref>
The Descendants of Paulus and Gertrude Kusters edited by Jean M. White says of Lijntijen:
"6. Helene/Lijntijen Theisson, born about 1650, baptized 20 May 1670 Goch Mennonite Church ; married Tonis/Thones Kunders (Dennis Cunders) 31 May 1677, Krefeld Reformed Church; came to Germantown in 1683."<ref>The Descendants of Paulus and Gertrude Kusters of Kaldenkirchen, Germany and Germantown, Pennsylvania Jean M. White, editor published by The Caster Association of America, 1991 p. 51</ref>
=== Birth ===
: Birth: <ref>[[#Niepoth|Niepoth]]: Page 97</ref>
:: Date: ABT 1650
:: SDATE 1 JUL 1650:: Place: Kaldenkirchen, , , Germany<ref>Source: [[#S199]] TMPLT FIELD Name: Page</ref>
=== Christening ===
: Christening: <ref>[[#Niepoth|Niepoth]]: Page 97</ref>
:: Date: 20 MAY 1670:: Place: Goch Menn Church<ref>Source: [[#S199]] TMPLT FIELD Name: Page</ref>
===Marriage===Although the Conrad book states the wife of Thonis Kunders was ''Elin, supposed to have been a sister of William Streypers'' <ref>[[#Conrad|Conrad]]: p. 6.</ref>, I think this in error. I suggest that [[Doors-21|Helene Lijntijen Doors]] (or some variant surname thereof) was married to Thones Kunders in 1677 according to Niepoth. [[Priest-412|Priest-412]] 20:34, 19 December 2015 (EST)
<blockquote>... in the Mennonite congregation at Goch, on 25 May 1670, therefore at the age of about twenty years, was baptized: '''Leentien Doormans, spinster, daughter of Thies Doormans''. At the same time there was a young man in Goch who was baptized there, 9 July 1673: ''Theunis Koenders, bachelor, son of Koendert Lensen.'' Now is it any wonder that on the first Sunday after Trinity (May 31) Anno Domini 1677 in Krefeld at the Reformed Church, the bans of marriage were published for ''Tonis Kuners of Gladbach and Lentgen Mattheisen (spinster) of Kaldenkirchen.'' She is indeed the daughter, baptized in Goch, of Theis Doors or Doormand, who is named ''Lijnijen Teisen'' in the Quaker wedding document. <ref>[[#Niepoth|Niepoth]]: Page 97</ref> </blockquote>
The Jordan reference states ''The maiden name of his wife, Ellen, has not been ascertained.'' <ref>[[#Jordan|Jordan]]: p. 1474.</ref><ref>Source: [[#FN01]] ''Elin'' vs. ''Helene''. </ref> <BR>
The Roberts reference also presents evidence that the spouse of Thones Kunders is not ''Elin Streypers'' but ''Helene Doors'':
<blockquote>"Besides the seven members of the Isacks op den Graeff family who signed the marriage certificate of 1681, there are twelve other Dutch Quakers of Krefeld and Pennsylvania whose signatures are on it. One of these was ''Tunnes'' (?) ''Keunen'', as he signed his name on the certificate; or Tünis Künders, as it is said to appear in other Krefeld sources; or Thones Kunders, as he was better known in his transatlantic home. Nearly opposite his on the certificate, is the name of ''lijntijen teissen'', who was Thones' wife. ''Lijntijen'' is a diminutive of Helena and Magdalena; and an American descendant of Thones and his wife, says of them: 'Among the number on the ship "Concord" was Thones Kunders, a man at that time presumably of twenty-five or thirty years of age, and his wife, ''Elin'', supposed to have been a sister of William Streypers, the latter being also one of the emigrants.' Other Pennsylvania writers have referred to Kunder's wife as one of Streyper's sisters; but ''Elin'' (Ellen), like ''Lijntijen'', is a form of Helen or Helena, and of Magdalena (the Hebrew Magdala). <ref name="Roberts"> [[#Roberts|Roberts]]: p. 32.</ref> </blockquote>
The ''1681 marriage certificate'' refers to the Krefeld wedding of [[Op_den_Graeff-17|Dirck op den Graeff]] and Nolcken Vijten. <ref name="Niepoth"> [[#Niepoth|Niepoth]]: p. 88.</ref> The surname of ''teissen'' is a variant spelling of her father's first name '''Theis''' or Matthias. The surname was usually created by combining the father's first name and ''sen'' or ''son''. The father of
Lijntijen is [[Dohrs-1|Matteis Peters (Dohrs) Doors]]. <BR>
Marriage [[Wikipedia:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banns_of_marriage|banns]] published 31 May 1677. <ref>[[#Niepoth|Niepoth]]: Page 97</ref><BR>Note: The date of the Banns is not necessarily the date of the marriage.
=== Immigration ===Lijntijen, her spouse Thones, and their three children immigrated to the New World, landing in Philadelphia, aboard the "[[Space:CONCORD_the_GERMAN_MAYFLOWER| Concord]]," which departed from London July 24, 1683. Thirteen families and 33 people came together from Krefeld, a city of the Lower Rhine in Germany, close to the Dutch border.
== Sources ==
===Books===# <span id='Conrad'></span>Conrad, Henry C. ''[[Space:Thones_Kunders_and_his_children|Thones Kunders and his children]]'' # <span id='Jordan'></span>Jordan, John W., ed. ''[[Space:OCLC-11953941|Colonial Families of Philadelphia]]'' # <span id='Niepoth'></span>Niepoth, Wilhelm. ''[[Space:The_Ancestry_of_the_Thirteen_Krefeld_Emigrants_of_1683|The Ancestry of the Thirteen Krefeld Emigrants of 1683]]''# <span id="Roberts"></span>Roberts, Clarence V. ''[[Space:OCLC-3530764| Ancestry of Clarence V. Roberts & Frances A. (Walton)Roberts]]'' (Wiliam F. Fell Company, 1940.) <BR>
* Source: <span id='S199'>S199</span> Abbreviation: Ancestry.com Title: Dominique Z. Delphine, <i>CABLE-BUCHER-HAWBAKER-ULERY-KESTER-PRIEST - STAFFORD - SCANLAND-PRICE - HAPNER</i> Subsequent Source Citation Format: Dominique Z. Delphine, <i>CABLE-BUCHER-HAWBAKER-ULERY-KESTER-PRIEST - STAFFORD - SCANLAND-PRICE - HAPNER</i> BIBL Dominique Z. Delphine. <i>CABLE-BUCHER-HAWBAKER-ULERY-KESTER-PRIEST - STAFFORD - SCANLAND-PRICE - HAPNER</i>. TMPLT TID 0 FIELD Name: Footnote VALUE Dominique Z. Delphine, <i>CABLE-BUCHER-HAWBAKER-ULERY-KESTER-PRIEST - STAFFORD - SCANLAND-PRICE - HAPNER</i> FIELD Name: ShortFootnote VALUE Dominique Z. Delphine, <i>CABLE-BUCHER-HAWBAKER-ULERY-KESTER-PRIEST - STAFFORD - SCANLAND-PRICE - HAPNER</i> FIELD Name: Bibliography VALUE Dominique Z. Delphine. <i>CABLE-BUCHER-HAWBAKER-ULERY-KESTER-PRIEST - STAFFORD - SCANLAND-PRICE - HAPNER</i>. TMPLT FIELD Name: Page
* Source: <span id='S86'>S86</span> Abbreviation: Ancestry Family Trees Title: Ancestry Family Trees Publication: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com. Original data: Family Tree files submitted by Ancestry members. Repository: [[#R1]] Paranthetical: Y Page: Ancestry Family Tree Quality or Certainty of Data: 3 Data: Text: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/69087466/family * Repository: <span id='R1'>R1</span> Name: Ancestry.com Address: Ancestry.com Name: Ancestry.com
* Source: <span id='S86'>S86</span> Abbreviation: Ancestry Family Trees Title: Ancestry Family Trees Publication: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com. Original data: Family Tree files submitted by Ancestry members. Repository: [[#R1]] Paranthetical: Y Page: Ancestry Family Tree Quality or Certainty of Data: 3 Data: Text: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/69087466/family * Repository: <span id='R1'>R1</span> Name: Ancestry.com Address: Ancestry.com Name: Ancestry.com
* Source: <span id='S86'>S86</span> Abbreviation: Ancestry Family Trees Title: Ancestry Family Trees Publication: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com. Original data: Family Tree files submitted by Ancestry members. Repository: [[#R1]] Paranthetical: Y Page: Ancestry Family Tree Quality or Certainty of Data: 3 Data: Text: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/69087466/family * Repository: <span id='R1'>R1</span> Name: Ancestry.com Address: Ancestry.com Name: Ancestry.com
<span id='FN01'>FN01</span> This name of ''Ellen'' has possibly been confused with ''Helene'' and other researchers mistakenly linked to Elin Streypers based on her first name.[[Priest-412|Priest-412]] 20:34, 19 December 2015 (EST) <BR>
<references />
* Source: <span id='S86'>S86</span> Abbreviation: Ancestry Family Trees Title: Ancestry Family Trees Publication: Online publication - Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com. Original data: Family Tree files submitted by Ancestry members. Repository: [[#R1]] Paranthetical: Y Page: Ancestry Family Tree Quality or Certainty of Data: 3 Data: Text: https://www.ancestry.com/family-tree/tree/69087466/family * Repository: <span id='R1'>R1</span> Name: Ancestry.com Address: Ancestry.com Name: Ancestry.com
From Ancestry.com:
'''Confusion on Thone's wife'''
Posted 05 Apr 2011 by elizabeth wahl
Hi Barb and all,
At 11:27 AM 8/25/00 EDT, Swinfield9@aol.com wrote:
>What is the accepted name for Thones Kunders wife:
>
>Elin Streypers OR Lijntigen/ Helene THEISSON ?
>
>Thanks
>Barb
I'm sure there are others here who know a lot more about this than I.
So, I hope they'll point out any errors. However, I've been meaning
to ask some questions in this area, so maybe this is an opportunity
to start the discussion.
I'm not sure what is "accepted," but I'll tell you what I think
is correct and why.
The short answer is:
Lentgen/Lijntijen/Lentje, etc. Matteisen/Teisen, etc.
where the / marks separate alternate forms of the name.
Now for the long answer --
First, here are 3 primary records or transcriptions of same:
1) The marriage records of the Reformed Church in Krefeld for 1677
(LDS microfilm #1,336,927; item 5) show the marriage of:
"Tönis Kuners" and "Lentgen Matteisen"
2) The 20 March 1681 marriage certificate of "Derijck Isacks" and
"Nolcken Vijten" in Krefeld was signed by "Lijntijen Teisen" as well
as many others of the Original 13. Source: "The Ancestry of the
Thirteen Krefeld Emigrants of 1683," by Wilhelm Niepoth, translated
by John Brockie Lukens; reprinted in Genealogies of Pennsylvania
Families... vol III pp 495-512; originally published in PGM in 1980.(Thanks to Anne, who cited this in message #368 on the listbot system.)
3) An abstract of the 7 Sept 1710 Marriage Certificate for the
marriage of "Henry Kunders" and "Catharine Strepers" at Germantown
shows among the names at the end "Lentje Kunders." Source:
Publications of the Genealogical Society of Pennsylvania, vol II,
no. 1, pp 66-67. (A footnote says: It is noticeable that many
of the signatures were written by F. D. Pastorius, who also wrote
the certificate.)
Can anyone else cite any more primary records giving her name?
Now let's talk about her name, starting with her given name.
The above records show her name as Lentgen, Lijntijen, and Lentje.
Even keeping in mind that spelling was not totally standardized
back then, you might still ask, What is the correct spelling?
If she were from The Netherlands, I would say Leentje. See:
Kenn Stryker-Rodda, "New Netherland Naming Systems and Customs,"
NYGBR, vol 126, no 1, pp 35-45. So, for want of a more
definitive spelling, I'll use Leentje for the rest of this message.
Now Leentje is a diminutive name. So, you might also ask, What was
her full name? We cannot tell from the above data. It could
be Magdalena, or Helena, or even Elenora. See Stryker-Rodda op cit.
Note that when we in English form a diminutive, we usually delete
the last part of name. Matthew would become Matt, etc. The
Dutch on the other hand, normally delete the first part of the
name; thus Magdalena becomes Lena or Lentje and so forth.
I have, so far, not found any primary records with her name in
other than the diminutive form. Has anyone found a primary
record with her shown as a Magdalena, Helena, or Elenora?
But even if one is found, we must be careful. She may have told
the minister or clerk that her name was Leentje; and then he
may have on his own decided to record her with her full name
and taken a guess (if he didn't know). As Mr. Stryker-Rodda
says (op cit p. 37): "Many a girl baptized as Magdalena but
called Lena was married as Elenora and appeared in baptismal
records of her children as Helena." So, ideally, we would
need to find several citations of her full name.
But there is another avenue that may help us lean toward one
name as opposed to the other two. And that is, What were the
names of her granddaughters? Frequently, the Dutch and some
Germans would name their first children after the child's
grandparents.
Henry C. Conrad in his 1891 book, Thones Kunders and His Children
1683-1891... has transcriptions of the wills of several of the
children of Thones and Leentje. It turns out that son Madtis
named his second daughter Magdalen and son John named his second
daughter Magdalene. As far as I know, no granddaughters were named
Helena or Elenora.
So, if forced to choose, I would guess that the full name of the
wife of Thones Kunders was named Magdalena. But I would rather play
it safe for now (until I see some direct evidence of her full name)
and say only what I know: Leentje or one of the actual recorded
diminutives. I suppose it is possible that she, like her husband,
changed her name to be more English-like (Ellen, eg.); but, again,
I've seen no evidence of that.
Now lets address her second name, a patronymic. A patronymnic
shows that the child is a son or daughter of the father.
Many languages have used this concept. In Dutch, the son of
Jan was, I think, originally called ____ Janszoon -- meaning
Jan's son. This seems to have evolved to Janszen. Other forms
are Jansz. and Jansen.
The daughters were called _____ Jansdochter, which came to be
abbreviated Jansdr. In the New Netherland, daughters were usually
called simply Jans or Janse, but sometimes Jansen.
Leentje has a patronymics of "Matteisen" and "Teisen." This tells
us that her father's name was Mattheis or Theis. Also, note that
"Teis" is a diminutive for "Matteis," so they are in a sense the
same name. For more on patronymics see Stryker-Rodda op cit.
In addition, it appears that the family also had a hereditary
surname: Doors / Daers /Dorss / Dohrs / Dahrs, etc.
Neipoth-Lukens cite the 24 May 1670 bap. at the age of "about
twenty" of "Leentien Doormans, spinster, daughter of Theis
Doormans." For more details, see their article cited above.
I've not run across any other primary sources that refer to
her with the surname Doors, etc. Has anyone else?
Some may wonder, Then where did the name "Elin Streypers" come from?
Let's deal with "Elin" first. That is the name give to Thones'
wife by Henry C. Conrad in his 1891 book. I don't recall that
he gave any source for it. So, did he find a source I haven't?
Or did he see a source that said Lentje and assume her name
was Elin, not realizing that it could also be Magdalena or
Helena? Or did she change her name to Elin at some point?
As to "Streypers," again Henry C. Conrad says (p. 6) that
the wife of Thomes was "supposedly to have been a sister of William
Streypers..." Again, I am not sure where he got this.
An article by Chester E. Custer titled "The Kusters and Doors of
Kaldenkirchen, Germany, and Germantown, Pennsylvania" in the
Pennsylvania Mennonite Heritage magazine July 1986 pp 24-31 has
an item that may shed some light. (Thanks to Dora for mentioning
this article on her web site.) On p. 27 we see:
"In a letter to his brother William in Germantown Jan Streypers
wanted William to see that his (Jan's) 'five families' were provided
land in that village. The translator of that document listed the
names of the families. 'There went to Germantown Jan Streeper's
brother William Streepers. Reiner and Herman Tyson were Jan Streper's
wife's brothers. Thomas Conradt/Kunders, Loenart Arets, and Paulus
Custers were their brothers-in-law.'"
According to the above article and Niepoth, Anna Doors had married
secondly Jan Streypers.
Two issues with the above letter:
What is the antecedant of the pronoun "their" before brothers-
in-law? Is it William and Jan Streypers? Or is it Reiner and
Herman Tyson and Anna Doors?
What did brother-in-law mean in those days? I think it had
a somewhat broader meaning than today.
Depending on how you answer the above questions, you could conclude,
I think, that Thones Kunders had married Jan Streyper's sister.
However, I think the correct situation is that Anna, Reiner, Herman,
and Leentje were all Doors siblings. And Jan Streypers married Anna.
And Thones Kunders married Leentje.
Now, if "their" means the Doors kids, then the present-day meaning
of brother-in-law works for Thones -- he married "their" sister.
If you assume "their" means the Streypers boys, then you will need
a little more expansive definition of "brother-in-law" to get the
right answer. Jan Streypers m. Anna Doors whose sister, Leentje,
married Thones Kunders. I think that the broad way "in-law" was used
in those days, Thones could have been said to be the "brother-in-law"
of Jan Streypers (without either one marrying the other's sister).
So, confusion as to just what was meant in this letter may have
been the source of the Streypers theory.
Regards,
Howard
hswain@ix.netcom.com
===GEDCOM===WikiTree profile Doors-21 created through the import of Lupton file.ged on Jul 7, 2011 by [[Ostermyer-1 | Kim Ostermyer]]. See the [https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:NetworkFeed&who=Doors-21 Changes page] for the details of edits by Kim and others.
Doors-41 was created by [[Saunders-3398 | Pat Saunders]] through the import of Ancestry_William_Saunders.ged on Oct 3, 2014.
Doors-37 was created by [[Saunders-3398 | Pat Saunders]] through the import of Ancestry_William_Saunders.ged on Oct 3, 2014.
<!-- Please edit, add, or delete anything in this text, including this note. Be bold and experiment! If you make a mistake you can always see the previous version of the text on the Changes page. -->
''This biography was auto-generated by a GEDCOM import.<ref>Tyson-674 was created by [[Saunders-3398 | Pat Saunders]] through the import of Ancestry_William_Saunders.ged on Oct 3, 2014. ''This comment and citation can be deleted after the biography has been edited and primary sources are included.''</ref> It's a rough draft and needs to be edited.''
Author: Pat D Saunders
|
My Family History
1650 - 1729 (79 years)